00:00:01 Juliano  

I’m not a therapist, not a counselor. I’m a psychopharmacologist. I have an hour to figure out a person’s life story, figure out what’s wrong, and figure out what medication or alchemy might work to improve some of the debilitating symptoms, and then schedule an appointment and on with their day. And I always felt like those were missed experiences, there were missed opportunities. And so I asked permission to take the professional program of Compassion Inquiry, with the intention, but I would take from it some of the languages, the Gabor Maté-isms, the stepping stones. I would ask permission and check infrequently, what are you feeling in the body? And I would implement them in my 15 or 20 minutes with somebody. And all of a sudden those routine check the box assessments, would uncover years of hidden shit that people are carrying with them in this bag of suffering that we all carry on our backs. Instead of a pill or a modality or a program or a book or a substance, a habit, maybe it was just like, I can lead you, I can compassionately guide you through your own inquiry, to the place, to the time, to the event that caused you to believe this narrative that’s not true. And through your awareness, through your own Compassionate Inquiry, in the few minutes that we have, you can explain and validate your lived experience in a non judgmental way. And now, with your intention, you don’t have to pass it on.

00:01:41 Rosemary
This is the Gifts of Trauma Podcast. Stories of transformation and healing through Compassionate Inquiry^®.

00:02:00 Kevin
Welcome to the Gifts of Trauma Podcast from Compassionate Inquiry. I’m really happy to be here today. This has been a long time coming for me with Juliano… Innocenti? Innocente! Juliano, I have lots of questions I want to ask you and I also think I have lots of questions that I don’t know about yet that will pop up in the course of our conversation. Juliano, I’m going to introduce you formally, as in biographically, but I think it would be really lovely if you would introduce yourself.

00:02:38 Juliano
Oh, thank you. When I travel with the Compassionate Inquiry conferences, Confluence Conferences, I usually do a lot of introductions and make sure that the speakers are cared for and that there’s not a lot of tension between people who are getting worked up and de-escalating and all the stuff that human beings go through during human experiences. So when I hear an introduction or I want to give an introduction, I personally… I tend to shy away from the narrative, the template narrative, not because it’s not important and people do want to know, but because I feel like I compare it metaphorically, to, like, a dating app or a Facebook page. How do you wrap up 46 years of lived experience into a paragraph that tries to portray what you are and who you are?

00:03:39 Kevin
Let me do this. And Juliano, please let me do this. I had a thought. If I was hosting a dinner party and I was inviting you, and I was inviting some other friends, and that’s not a bad idea, actually. But if I was hosting this dinner party and I was wanting to tell people who would be at dinner, what would I tell them about you?

00:04:00 Juliano
Sure. This is what you’d say. So Juliano Innocenti is an anomaly. I am definitely an anomaly of a human being. I’m unique. I’m special. I was born premature, barely viable. My first breaths of existence were done in a body that was born addicted to crystal meth and crack cocaine. The substances that harmed me and caused my early birth were also the substances that kept me alive. I was put in a bassinet, pushed to the side, not expected to live throughout the night. It was not uncommon in the 70s to do such things. They just let nature take its course. But for me, I was still breathing the next day. And the doctor came and said, we better help this one. No shit, you better help this one. And so that’s what they did. They started to help this one. And sting after sting, I overcame. And I learned much about this world, about depending on others. I quickly learned my value. I quickly learned my value. And I’m great. I’m on a podcast. But it is good to see you. Yeah, it’s good to see you… I know a few people. 

I was born to a mother who was not equipped to be a mother. I think she wanted to be that. She just. She chose a path that did not really have the time or space for the maternal. Even though she’s a woman and she was a mom, she was not a mother. She was strong armed. Later, for the longest time, I thought I was abandoned. I would later hire private investigators to learn my story and learn the truth that, no, I was not abandoned. She was threatened with a case, prison or whatever they did. Or she’d take $10,000 and give me up and just go. So she took the money. Good for her. Not angry. I hope she used the money, she got what she needed. And she put me on a path of extraordinary circumstances. Men cry. People were not kind to me. I was very hyper. I couldn’t sit still. I couldn’t follow directions. I couldn’t do math. I couldn’t read, I couldn’t walk. I moved around a lot on my hands and knees. I scooted. And then one doctor in a foster system said my hand eye coordination was underdeveloped and I should probably take swimming classes or ballet, some kind of dance movement, and it would help me develop these things. So I was in a family that had someone in dance and they didn’t want to take me on yet another after school adventure, to swimming. So dance class it was. And I learned to dance. And I was so, like, flexible and naive and just willing to do whatever. I had natural ability. I just took to it. And I learned the love of music, classical music. I learned the love of movement, of stage presence. I knew how to command bass from lines and movement and posture and presence. I learned that even frail and effeminate demanded attention. That through control of movement, I could control thought.

00:08:04 Kevin
Juliano, can I pause you? And I might do this from time to time. Although I am fascinated to listen to you and to watch you. I’d really like our…. I’d really like our listeners and myself selfishly to know some things about you because I think they’re worth knowing. And I like the way that you introduced yourself and used the word an anomaly. And I hear that you’re using that word kindly and compassionately. 

00:08:37 Juliano
You know what, Kevin? I think I could do a really quick segue and get right into the nuts and bolts of what this podcast is about with just what you’ve learned about me you can piece together. Years were not easy. Foster care systems were not easy. I was abused sexually, physically. I was tortured. I was tied to beds. It was not ideal, but it was my lived experience and I survived it. I’m still here, as Gabor Maté would say. And when I was introduced to Compassionate Inquiry, it was one of these weekend sign-ups for an online thing, and a friend had sent me the link, and I was like, sure, why not? I’ve never heard of it. I’d never heard of him. So I went and right before the lunch break, he sent a question about what if you could go back and say no? That was the question. What if you could have said no, would you have said no? And so everyone was sending their response in the chat, you know, in those 2,000 people forums where everyone wants to be heard. But I accidentally sent a direct chat to Gabor Maté. Not to everyone. I don’t know how, I’m really good at Zoom, but apparently that day I was out of it and I wasn’t looking the best. I didn’t do fashion, and I always do fashion. So I didn’t have my armor, my colorful armor. And I said, yeah, that’s a stupid question. I said, what a stupid question. If I could say no, how could I say no to using crystal meth? When I couldn’t breathe, I couldn’t speak. I had no voice. I couldn’t say, I don’t want that in my body, so don’t ask me, what if I could have said no? I couldn’t say no. What a stupid question. 

I didn’t think anyone would read it. Oh, did he read it! So we come back from lunch, and he goes, I can speak with this. Who is this? This Juliano Innocenti guy. All of the feels. What am I wearing? I’m wearing a hoodie. I don’t wear hoodies. Oh, yeah, my house is a mess. All the feels, all the thoughts. And we started talking. And he learned that I specialize in child and adolescent psychiatry. I prescribe medicine. He prescribed medicine. He learned about my journey of premature birth, born addicted. He did something for me that I’d never heard or seen before, that I do daily now. He honored me, said, “Juliano, can I just take a moment and honor you for existing?” He called me a warrior, a wounded warrior. I’d only heard that one other time when I had my birth astrology chart read. Chiron. The comet Chiron was around my moon when I was born. The lunar maternal, the mother. Of course, it does not predict our future, but it does explain that my life would be full of wounds that may be difficult, if ever, to heal. And it would be around a female, likely mother. Ding, ding, ding, ding. Suddenly, I didn’t care what I was wearing. I didn’t care what I looked like. I didn’t care what my apartment was like. I was hooked, and we were connected. And he explained to me that I had the power to leave. I could quit. He quit. So could I. But there’s something inside of me that kept showing up. Because there was a gift. There was wisdom in that trauma. And every bit inside of me wants to show up and use my gift to help make sense of someone else going through maybe not the same, but similar levels of suffering.

00:12:38 Kevin
We’re taking a brief pause to share what’s on offer in the Compassionate Inquiry community. Stay with us. We’ll be right back.

00:12:48 Rosemary
If you’ve been listening to our podcast and are curious about the Compassionate Inquiry approach developed by Dr. Gabor Maté and Sat Dharam Kaur, consider joining the professional training program. It’s open to all healing professionals, including Naturopaths physicians, bodyworkers, coaches and therapists. In addition to learning how to use compassion to support your clients in their most vulnerable moments, with greater empathy and authenticity, you’ll also deepen your own internal process. If you’re interested, look for the link in the show notes.

00:13:23 Juliano
I’m not a therapist, not a counselor, I’m a psychopharmacologist. I have an hour to figure out a person’s life story, figure out what’s wrong, and figure out what medication or alchemy or combination of therapy and alchemy might work to improve some of the debilitating symptoms, and then schedule an appointment, and on with their day. And I always felt like those were missed experiences, there were missed opportunities. And so I asked permission to take the professional program of Compassionate Inquiry with the intention that I would not be a Compassionate Inquiry counselor, but I would take from it some of the languages, some of the little isms, the Gabor Maté-isms, the stepping stones. And I would take from it here, and I would ask permission and check infrequently, are you okay to continue, what is it? What are you feeling in the body? And I would implement them in my 15 or 20 minutes with somebody. And all of a sudden those routine check the box assessments would uncover years of hidden shit that people are carrying with them in this bag of suffering that we all carry on our backs. And instead of a pill or a modality or a program or a book or a substance, a habit. Maybe it was just like I can lead you, I can compassionately guide you to, through your own inquiry, to the place, to the time, to the event, that caused you to believe this narrative that’s not true. And through your awareness, through your own Compassionate Inquiry, in the few minutes that we have, you can explain and validate your lived experience in a non judgmental way that might even help you explain and validate the lived experience of those people or that person that harmed you. You don’t have to forgive them, fuck them, that they didn’t do their own. But maybe it was unknowing, unwilling, unintentional. And now with your intention, you don’t have to pass it on. You can stop the cycle. And it’s not a one size fits all. Sometimes I don’t incorporate it at all. Has to be the right time, the right feeling. And I know that people who would be attracted to this kind of a podcast, Kevin, I know you very well. I know how intuitive you are, how authentic you are. When you are that authentic and genuine and in touch with yourself as I assume all of you here listening today are, you know what I’m talking about. It’s not, oh, our time has started here, let’s get into this. It’s a dance. It’s a delicate dance. We wear one another’s process like loose fitting garments, that when we’ve eaten a little too much the night before, it stretches out but still is ethereal and flows, like a garment in the wind. And when we need it to compress us closer, it will tighten like a belt and hold us. And we can take it off if it’s too hot. We can add another layer when we need it, and we can go through it together. And your shit does not have to be my shit, and my stuff does not have to be your stuff. I can use the power of my trauma, the dissociation, not as a disorder, as a superpower. When I harness my superpower of dissociation, I can go through those things with you, with your permission, when you’re ready. And I don’t have to allow it to consume me. I can dissociate to a stronger version of me that’s able to be present. And then when it’s done, I can revert back to this version of me with compassion and empathy. And I can hold this fragile version of you in this loving embrace, this angelic embrace. And I can rock you, metaphorically, in the arms of an angel, knowing that there’s a stronger version of me that can hold me in that space and rock me when I need to. And then, when the time is over, I can say thank you, sign the note and invite the next person in.

00:18:05 Kevin
Juliano, pause for me, please. Pause just there. And the reason I ask you to pause is because you’re really worth listening to and you’re telling us a lot. And I would like the opportunity to distill that a little bit with you and to pull some things out of that a little bit for you. It’s interesting, the few things you said just there. You said, I’m still here. And boy, is that true. I was thinking, you’re not still here. You are still right here. 

The first time that I met you, Juliano, you probably won’t remember this. We were together on Zoom and we were at one of Compassionate Inquiries, Diversity, Equality and Inclusion trainings, DEI trainings. And we were going around the room introducing ourselves and the facilitator, I can’t remember their name, they said, please introduce yourself, and if you have any preferred pronouns, please tell us your pronouns. You’re maybe smiling. You maybe know this… what’s coming here? And it went around the room and there was they/thems, and there was she/hers and there was he/hims, and there was non-disclosed. And people using… using their pronouns. And it came to this picture of you and Juliano. I don’t want to be insensitive, but I looked at this picture and I saw a person. You’ve got a thick beard, thicker than mine. So this person with a thick beard. And you had large gold hoop earrings in that day. These big, huge gold earrings. And I think you had a ring on that was very similar to the ring you’re wearing today. Yeah, the huge butterfly. Huge butterfly ring. So here was this person. An enigma – certainly not definable by how they looked on the screen. And you said, my name is Juliano and my pronouns are marvelous and glorious. And I nearly spat my tea out. I just thought, that’s wonderful. And I thought, I need to know this person. I need to know this person. I need to find this person. I need to speak to this person. I need to reach out to this person. And then soon afterwards, I know I’m telling a slightly long story here. 

Soon afterwards, we were in Vancouver together, and I saw you and I just made a beeline for you. I need to speak to this person. And I can’t remember what you were wearing, but it was something very glamorous. I think it was a tux jacket with a beautiful blouse and a red skirt and a pair of winkle picker boots. And you looked really glorious. And I went to you and I said, Juliano, I’m Kevin. I’m really pleased to meet you, and you look absolutely wonderful. And you just stopped and said, no, you look wonderful. And this idea of honoring the other. I was wearing one of my nice shirts, okay. But I certainly wasn’t looking as glamorous as you were. And I was really…. The word I wrote down when you talked about honored, and Gabor honored you. The word I wrote down is illuminated. And I was really illuminated by your presence and your kindness to me. And we’ve seen each other quite a few times after that, and even at Vancouver, and then we were in Romania together. And every time, you have illuminated me with your presence, with your words. And I see you do that, as I see you move around a space, I see you illuminate the other. Always, like always, you have this wonderful ability to illuminate. I’m really deeply drawn to that and fascinated by that. It’s something that is a real power. And I can imagine in the work that you do, simply that… simply being illuminated must be such an uplifting experience for people that had probably never been illuminated, never been honored. And I would love you to talk a little bit. When I look at what you do, Juliano, by the way, can I ask a quick question? Is Innocenti, Is that your real surname?

00:22:24 Juliano
Yeah. My first name is just the letter J. Juliano Innocenti.

00:22:29 Kevin
Innocente. It’s such a cool surname.

00:22:31 Juliano
You know what’s really interesting about the name, not to get off a tangent, but whatever. We are who we are. The name Innocenti comes from Florence. My lineage, of course, is of Judea. The area of Mesopotamia now known as Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Palestine. That old conflicted but beautiful sacred part of our world. But after the Emperor Hadrian ordered the first state extermination, state sponsored extermination of Jewish people after the murder of his lover that got blamed on the Jews, my people fled and settled around the area of Florence. They were probably perceived as gypsy, they were probably brown, they spoke dialects or that kind of thing. But in the Renaissance period, there was a hospital, Ospedale degli Innocenti. It’s still there. It was funded by the Medici family. You can still go on tours there. They still have an orphanage that’s part of it. It’s now a museum. But it was the first place where people. This is where it all comes together for me. Where mothers or families who had an unwanted child, or a child they could not care for, they could go and leave them on the steps of that hospital. Or they had these big concrete… If you think of the Trivial Pursuit game pieces with little pies, they had those big cement things that could wheel into the building, so you could put a baby in one of those cheese wedges and just wheel it inside. And they had staff, nuns, probably sisters, that would go and collect the child. If the person who left the child left relics or information about the child, they were given the surname of the person or their family. If they were simply abandoned with no information, they were not judged, they were not questioned, it was not against the law. They were simply given the last name Innocenti, the innocent. Anybody with the last name Innocenti today, and there’s some very famous ones, famous soccer player, a famous researcher in Rome who has a hospital named after him, a research hospital. They do vaccine research. They would have come from a male line who at some point was abandoned or left at that hospital. During the 150 years in the Renaissance, that place was open and they did that. So me being unwanted, or coming from someone who was unable to care for me, could be given up and end up with the last name Inochensi. To me, it is divine. It is everything about my story and my existence. And it is one of those things that when you get an email from the cosmos, you get a memo, a text message, a notification goes off, and it’s from God. You say, read receipt. I hear you. It’s one of those. That’s one of many of those kinds of stories in my life, as I know you. And many of the people watching, watching or listening can tell as well. This place is magical, mystical. But that’s my name, Innocenti. That’s where it comes from.

00:25:52 Kevin
Let me ask you another question, because I. You’re leading me on to some things.

00:25:56 Juliano
Ask away.

00:25:57 Kevin
When people come to know you as well as I do, they will see that idea of illuminating people and, hey, listen, life is suffering. And I’m not saying that you float around on a cloud of bliss, but sometimes it looks like you do. When I follow you and look at the things that you do and send you some messages, and hear about you. I can look up and see your work around LGBTQ issues. I can look at Pride marches. I can look at you throwing the first ball at ball games. You know, I can look at you on the likes of Instagram talking about suicide awareness, particularly in the LGBTQ+ communities. I can see and look and see your beautiful face on bus stop safety posters for people being safe when they’re out and being safe when they’re meeting up with partners, etc. etc. I can see the work that you do with HIV and AIDS awareness stuff. And the thing that I really would like you to talk about in just a second is the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence. And I’ve named all of those things Juliano, because we know in the work that we do that someone who is born premature in a body that is addicted to crack cocaine and meth and who was abandoned at birth or gave up, his mother, wasn’t able to keep him. We know all of the statistics stack up to say that is the person who will go on to become addicted and violent and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And you didn’t. And here you are doing all of these things. And please tell our listeners more about the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence. And Juliano is… because, I mean, your handle, your name within the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence is a Shalita Corn Dog. All right? And when we look, when you see images, it could be taken as a very flippant, throwaway, comical thing. It could be seen as that, but it is not.

00:27:57 Juliano
It’s blasphemous. It’s absolute blasphemy. It’s heresy.

00:28:01 Kevin
Tell me more about the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence and what they do and why they do it. Tell me more about that.

00:28:06 Juliano
I would love to. And first and foremost, thank you for acknowledging our Safety first campaign. It’s one of the things I am so proud of. I did it with my sister, my good friend. This is my good Judy, my ride or die sister, Roma, who is one of the most famous, probably the most famous people I know, who happens to just be my friend and my mentor and my confidant. And every time I have an idea, no matter how crazy it is, she’s that bitch that says, yeah, let’s do it. How can I help? And when we found out that people were literally being lured through apps with the thought that I’m going to have sex and I’m going to do these drugs or whatever to enhance the experience, only to be kidnapped and held for ransom, or drugged and videotaped, waking up in a hospital with a colostomy bag. This is happening. It’s happening. I don’t live in that world. I choose celibacy. Not as of recently, I’m happy to say I broke out of that. But I had to do something. I wanted to do something. And I reached out to my friend Roma and we put our heads together and we came up with Safety First. We reached out to our friend, the former executive director of Broadway Cares, Equity Fights Aids, Tom Viola, who listened and didn’t really understand what we were doing, but knows me long enough, and believes in me, to know it must be worthwhile if I’m calling. And he funded it. All we did was produce and come up with it. And then Justin Shook of J. Andrew Films believed in the project and we created the Safety first campaign. It’s sisters.org safety first. And it’s simple. It’s three uncomplicated tenets to keep yourself safe when you’re participating in that part of our culture. 1. Share your location with a friend. Have a buddy send a pic of the person. Send a screenshot of their profile. Tell them where you’re going. Share your location on your phone. Tell them what you’re going to be up to. If it’s six in the morning and you’re going to go share a bag of cocaine and have wild sex, tell your friend so someone knows you are going at 6 o’ clock in the morning to this hotel room with this person on this screenshot. And I’m going to do cocaine and I’m going to be home by noon. And if you’re not home by noon and don’t check in, someone knows to send someone to that hotel room. If your phone is dead, the location’s on, someone knows where you are. The next thing, go hook up and have fun. The third thing, follow up. Let them know I’m home, I’m safe. My vision is blurred, I’m dehydrated, I’m tired. So I’m going to put something in my stomach and I’m going to go lay down. But I’m home and I’m okay. You don’t have to engage. No questions, no judgments. Was it good, was it bad? Blah, blah, blah. Nope. Just great. Thanks for letting me know. We all have that friend that we could do that to, or do that with. And if you know someone who is in that world, don’t wait for them to ask you. Why don’t you ask them? Hey, I know that you’re up to stuff and I love you. You’re my friend. Would you be willing to, like, just let me know where you’re going? Send a screenshot, share your location? I’m not going to pry. I’m not going to follow up. I just want to know where you are. Because if something were to happen to you, I will be that person that sets the wheels in motion to find you and get you out of that situation that you’re in. Let me do that for you, okay? I’m not going to tell you not to go get high. I’m not going to tell you not to go get gang banged. That’s not what it’s about. And so thank you to Sister Roma, to Jay, to Justin. It’s a huge success. The San Francisco Muni put us on 21,000 buses and bus stops. It’s being picked up. Yeah. It got national and international press. It made Israel newspapers. I mean, it’s a huge success. And we made two videos. They’re really fun. One is targeted to transgender women, who are a big target of this kind of stuff. And then, of course, gay men who are isolated, lonely, addicted, easy targets for this kind of stuff. So, yeah, that Safety first… Thank you for bringing that up.

00:32:34 Kevin
Juliano, can I just add in there as well? I think transgender people, gay men, and I’m thinking of women, particularly young women as well. That same message applies to. And your message, the whole message is safety first, sexy second, which I really like. Sorry, I interrupted you. I think it’s just important to include. Because I’m thinking I have two young daughters and If they were going out to meet someone, would they be willing to send their location a picture? I’m going to be here and I’ll be home tomorrow morning. Great.

00:33:00 Juliano
Thank you for bringing that up. Because I am not female. I did not grow up with women. I don’t know the lived experience of being a girl. I know it’s fucked up. I know it is unbelievably unbalanced. The gravity, the weight, the unrealistic demands of beauty. And to be desired and to be wanted and to be sexy, but not too sexy. To look good, but not too good. To have friends, but the right friends. To say the right thing, but at the right time, in the right moment, in the right way. Oh, you’re gorgeous, you’re perfect, you’re beautiful. But if you had this $800 bag, you’d be even more beautiful. If you had this $50 lipstick, then you’d be perfect. If only your hair wasn’t curly, it was straight, then you’d look great. If you were blonde and not red. If you were red and not brown haired. If your breast, this one wasn’t just a little bit larger than this one. If the nipples weren’t just a little off. Human. If only you weren’t human. And I don’t know what that’s like. I can imagine and I can empathize, but it’s not my lived experience. So it’s not an audience or a community that I feel comfortable speaking for. But I admire the advocates and those that are doing the work in that world. The Taylor Swifts, the Cyndi Laupers that empower young women.

00:34:35 Kevin
Please, please, then go on, Juliano, and tell me more than about the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence.

00:34:39 Juliano
Yes, the Sisters. So the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, they were formed in 1979. It’s just a gaggle of drag queen clown nuns. The founder, one of the founders…

00:34:49 Kevin
Hang on, Juliano. Hang on, Juliano. A gaggle of drag queen clown nuns.

00:34:56 Juliano
Yeah, just sit with that. Just sit with that. Just sit with it.

00:34:59 Kevin
Let’s just let that land. Yeah. A gaggle of drag queen clown nuns.

00:35:04 Juliano
It’s everything that you think it is and more. But what’s interesting about us is there are some very delusional members of the sisters who really believe they’re nuns. We’re not nuns. We’re clowns.

00:35:18 Kevin
Okay?

00:35:19 Juliano
But we do the work of sisters. We feed the hungry. We look out for the sick. When I became a sister, I did a novice project. You elevate. Similar to the convent process. We just. There’s two parts of our mission to expiate stigmatic guilt, which I envision is taking the piss out of the hate filled rhetoric that you were force fed as a child. Kevin. You’re Irish. I think if everyone doesn’t know that about Kevin. I’m sorry. You’re out of the closet now. You’re Irish.

00:35:54 Kevin
Thank you.

00:35:55 Juliano
You can’t help it. It’s just where you were born. I like that about you.

00:35:59 Kevin
Thank you.

00:36:00 Juliano
But there’s a lot of loaded stuff that comes from being Irish. True political adversaries, but mostly religious. You’re talking about a country and a land where if you grew up and you either went to Catholic school and you were forbidden from being friends with anyone else who did not go to Catholic school, or your family would be shunned. You would not be invited to shit. That’s real. How Christlike. Said no one. Or there’s the other side and you are adversaries just because you’re born into a faith and you are instilled with hate filled rhetoric. The young Kevin goes to church, is a pastor or a. What is it?

00:36:53 Kevin
A priest?

00:36:55 Juliano
Not a priest. God, I hope you’re not a priest. No, One of those boys.

00:36:59 Kevin
Altar boy. An altar boy.

00:37:00 Juliano
An altar boy.

00:37:01 Kevin
I was an altar boy. I was an altar boy. 

00:37:02 Juliano
Yeah. It’s a rite of passage and it’s an honor and it’s a beautiful thing. It’s pageantry and it’s belonging and you feel like you’re merging with the divine and it’s cool. It could be. However, this is a time when you’re going through puberty, when you’re figuring your stuff out. You’re horny. You could be an altar boy. And you could be standing there with an erection because someone cute is staring at you. It’s exciting. But you’re supposed to be doing this thing. You’re also working around and amongst men, many of them who are possibly hiding from their own identities, thinking that will keep them safe. And you’re told you’re a child of God, that angels watch over you when you sleep. And then you go through puberty and you find out, oh, I might be one of those people. I do things with myself and my hand in lotion. Now, whose child am I, and what does that entity send to watch over me when I sleep if I’m not their child? Am I haunted by demons? Am I a child of the other one? And this conflict develops and you lose sight of the core beauty of what that ideology is. To love one another, to not judge, to honor your family, to take care of the sick, to feed the hungry. It’s not that complicated. You honor the ancestors. You believe that there are spirit guides and angels that work overtime to help you on your journey. It could not be more beautiful. Oh, it’s so beautiful. And when people get involved, it goes down the toilet In the name of who? Jesus Christ. If only they knew Jesus Christ. 

So the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence exist to help people like you, and many others from many religions, not just the Christian ideologies. There’s lots of fucked up Muslims, hello Jihadism, hello Hasidic Jews, hello Hindus that think if you’re a widow that you deserve your feet to be beaten until they’re bloody because you’re a nobody and you deserve nothing. Yeah, that sounds very Lord Shiva. Like this, kind of like, human created gross stuff. So we exist to take the piss out of that and we do it using satire and wit. We are not being disrespectful. Most of us do not mean disrespect. We mean to point out these very common-sensical realities, these truths that are anti, they’re just anti Christ… Christian at their core. They go against everything that living man, the prophet, said. And we do it with a smile on our face and we do it by putting smiles on people’s faces. I wear crucifixes, I’m not Christian, neither was Jesus. We have a contest called Hunky Jesus. Time and time again, the international press, they always get me to do a story. You can Google it, I’m everywhere. And they always ask the same question, like I’m going to change my mind year to year. What would Jesus Christ say if he were here to watch this contest? Do you think it’s blasphemy? I said first of all, yes, it is blasphemy. It is total blasphemy. But do you know Jesus Christ? If Jesus was here, he’d be a guest judge. He’d love it. You know why? Because we are bringing people who are forced to live on the margins, we are bringing them to the center and we are giving them space to laugh, to enjoy. Instead of opening a holy book and seeing an artist’s rendering of this literally nude man in a loincloth with a gorgeous body and a gorgeous face, bleeding, suffering, homoerotic, no other, to actual homoerotic fun where we not see the person suffering, we see him laughing, bringing people together. Isn’t that what Jesus did? Jesus would be a guest judge. He would love the hunky Jesus contest. He’d probably enter it. He’d probably lose because people are more creative. And he’d hug them and congratulate them and he’d honor us for doing it. And yes, we’re blasphemous. We’re very blasphemous. However, I remind people, the living Jesus Christ was crucified. Do we remember the charges? He was crucified for? Heresy. Blasphemy. He was crucified for calling out the hypocrisy of the religions. The pagan Romans. That’s what he was crucified for. So am I a sister and I’m blasphemous? Yes. I’m also more Christ-like than the majority of Christians who roam this earth. And I’m proud of that. The other part of our mission. Really quick. I know you have a question. The other part is to promulgate universal joy. When you are in the presence of a sister, you feel joy. What you described in meeting me, when you encounter a sister in or out of drag. We all have this common denominator. We are literal beings of just light and joy. And we do suffer. And I do want to say one thing in your introduction. Yes. It seems like my life is gifted, that I have escaped suffering. I was born addicted, Kevin. I am an addict. I became an addict. And I still struggle with addiction like we all struggle with an addiction.

00:43:24 Kevin
I have several.

00:43:25 Juliano
We all do. It’s human. Addiction is a human. It’s not… I don’t call it a disease. It’s just an existence. And it’s part of what we do here. And for me, I have struggled my life with ketamine. It is my medicine. It is my poison. It has caused many problems, but it has caused many solutions. It’s cost me so much, but it’s worth so much. And I know that people will be proud listening to this. For me to say that out loud, because many think I am not aware of it, or I minimize it. I don’t. But I choose for myself a risk and benefit analysis. And I go through shit, unimaginable shit. And I feel like I’m sleepwalking. I’ve always felt like I’m asleep, like this is a nightmare and I want to wake up. And when I use the substance that is an anesthetic, a sleeping medicine, I feel awake. I have a paradoxical effect. And suddenly this dreamlike state dissipates and I am in an Angelic reality that feels familiar to me. I access the spiritual plane and I feel one with it. This does not feel normal to me. I feel like an intruder here. But I also see my purpose here. But there, I feel at home. Many experience darkness or evil that they perceive as evil. I don’t see good and evil. I just see we all have darkness. We all can tap into it when we need to. Every day I wake up, I could turn dark. I could be a serial killer. I could take life, no problem. I fantasize about it daily. I have my list, but I choose not to dwell on that. There’s so many. What good would that do? I could strangle Kim Jong Un. And then what? The next 40 of them would step up and be worse. No, I am not created that way. I don’t even kill mosquitoes on my skin. I let them drink until they’re full. Because the itch that’s left behind is not going to be worse if I kill it. And I have plenty of blood to spare. God has given me an abundance of blood. Here, eat. You’re hungry. I know hunger. I’ve been hungry. Eat, my young friend. Don’t eat too much because you still have to fly and your wings aren’t that big yet, but eat. I’ll put some toothpaste on. It won’t itch. I’ll be fine. That is who I’m created to be. I can’t help it. I’m born that way. I. I’m on a tangent. I don’t even know if I’ve answered the question. But the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence are very that. We’re fabulous. We’re all over the world. I am Sister Shalita Corndog. I chose the name. I was going to be Sister Shalit about anything. And then I was like, that’s not, like, juicy enough. People aren’t going to remember that. Shalita. What? Shalita Sandwich. She grilled cheese. Shelita. And I was living in Baltimore, and I looked up and there was a billboard for a state fair, and it had, like, carnival rides and stuff. And there was a big picture of a corn dog with bright yellow mustard. And I thought of the tagline Shalita Corn Dog. To bring it back to Compassionate Inquiry. One of the things that we do as sisters, and you were there for this, Kevin. One of the things that we do is we have what we call our highest civilian honor. We nominate people to be saints.

00:47:15 Kevin
I was going to ask you about this, so please continue.

00:47:17 Juliano
We nominate people to be saints. Saints are people who’ve dedicated their worth or contributed in such a way that are literally like Catholic saints or the… In Santeria, the Orishas. These are people who have lived lives so extraordinary. Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela. People who have left something on this earth. Other saints that have been sainted are like Harvey Milk.

00:47:43 Kevin
Gabor Maté.

00:47:44 Juliano
Yes. I nominated Gabor Maté. After my experience with him, and our first Confluence conference, I knew I’d have access to him. He’s hard to get to, that one. And if his management is watching, quit booking that man. He’s old, he’s tired. Quit booking him for so much. Let him rest. That’s my two cents. I love you, Gabor. I do.

00:48:04 Kevin
I’m not sure. I’m not sure who’s driving him, whether it’s himself.

00:48:06 Juliano
Oh, it’s probably him. I don’t think he knows how to sit still. I see Gabor Maté like a hummingbird. Yeah. He doesn’t even stop vibrating his wings to drink of sweet nectar. So I nominated Gabor Maté because I’d have access to him. I contacted the sisters in Vancouver and met Sister Diversity Reigns, who agreed to come in, face and surprise Gabor Maté. And what I did is I decided to sing to him. When I was little, before my trauma, I used to sing, just for myself. Not in a choir, not in a school, just. I used to sing. I loved to sing, and I was good at singing. And somewhere along the painful journey of childhood, of abuse, neglect, hunger, I stopped singing.

00:48:50 Kevin
Can I sing something for you, Juliano?

00:48:52 Juliano
You can. You.

00:48:53 Kevin
With this sad eyes don’t be discouraged, though I realize, it’s hard to take courage… That’s what you sang to Gabor.

00:49:06 Juliano
And that’s the first time I sang since that… Since childhood. Wow. That meant to me more than it did to him. Although he was touched. I think it was the first time he said, ever, I’m speechless. And he was speechless. And then I named him his saint name. I’m gonna cry. His saint name is Saint Chiron, the Mystic. I named him after the wounded healer. I don’t think he understood what it is. He doesn’t have to, but I think, in that moment, he understood what it was. That man who honored me, was honored. And he doesn’t really know me, but he knows of me. When we see each other, we recognize each other. And he lets me do my thing at Confluence, and he lets me speak, and we hug each other. And I’ve done a lot of marketing with them. There’s sound bites and videos of me, encouraging professionals like myself, to check it out, explore, and see if they can integrate it. And I believe in it. But that was one way that all of this converges. I could use my foundation, my platform, and I could saint Gabor Maté, because he is a saint and he’s helped so many people heal from these childhood wounds.

00:50:21 Kevin
Thank you, Juliano.

00:50:22 Juliano
Oh, and by the way, we sainted Cyndi Lauper, and Sister Roma and I went, and Sister Bubbles nominated her, and I happened to have a way to get to her. It was such a moment. We bestowed sainting on Cyndi Lauper, who wrote True Colors and could not have been kinder. And it’s just like one of those full circle moments where, like, the universe conspires and the stars align and I get to have these experiences where I get to tell people who mean something to me that they matter.

00:50:52 Kevin
Julianno, the only challenge we have is that a podcast is a limited amount of time and I have an unlimited amount of curiosity around sitting with you. And playfully but compassionately and honestly, Juliano, I look forward to the day when I have done enough to be beatified by the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence. That wasn’t my question, but I look forward to that day. What I was going to say earlier was the thing that draws me to you is, you are a blossoming, an explosion, a bright light of authenticity and how you look and what you wear and how you dress and they’ve heard how you speak. And I really admire that authenticity. I really admire that expression of self. My question to you is, if you could encourage that expression of self in others, how would you, after all that you’ve been through, encourage that expression of authenticity in others?

00:51:54 Juliano
Authenticity does not mean extra or eccentric. If it takes courage for you to pick an all black outfit to blend in, for you to leave the house, to go to the grocery store, to pick up your children, then that’s authentic. And you’re going through the motion. You don’t have to wear blue eyeshadow and bright pink lipstick and a metallic jacket or a fresh new haircut. No, sometimes just getting up and walking out the door is authentically courageous. And to look someone in the eye could be authentically courageous. Also, avoiding people might be authentically you. I think the answer in a roundabout way is not necessarily to try to achieve an unrealistic expectation of what authenticity or genuineness means or is because that’s not real. But when you live your authentic self, it means, I’m drawn to something and I’m doing something or I’m dressing this way, or I’m singing, or I’m listening to something. I’m dancing. I’m moving in a way that feels right to me. I finally met my dads, my two dads, William Basil Loca and Michael Thorburn, who adopted me. And they are yin and yang. One is wise, one is the Buddha incarnate. The other one is luxurious and extravagant and everything exceptionally indulgent in life is William. And I am a mixture of those two. But they’re the ones that taught me that color is confidence, that fashion, being well dressed, being well presented is armor. It protects you from the dangers and hatred of the world, because people are going to throw hate at you no matter what. So if you look like a million dollars, it’s going to be a lot harder for that hatred to penetrate through. It’s going to bounce off of it. Why do I wear metallic, shiny things? Because it reflects that energy. Go ahead, send your best hate. Use the worst word you can think of. Call me a cunt. Call me a faggot. I dare you. They’re just letters organized to make words and sounds. It means nothing. But the hate behind it is everything. 

When people ask me my pronouns today, I have a go to now. I love the ones that I said to you because they’re changing all the time. But now I just say, call me anything you want that’s not used in a derogatory way. Call me she, call me her. If I have a problem with somebody calling me her or she, what does that say about me? It said, there’s something wrong with being a woman? There’s something wrong with women. I wouldn’t be here without women. None of us would. Women are creation. What an honor to be called a she or a her. I wish I could bring life into this world. I wish I could do better to protect the life that is brought into this world and the lives of those that do bring lives into this world. What an honor to be a she or a her. Inside I don’t feel like I am female, but I do embody and embrace the feminine. There’s nothing wrong with that. So call me she. Call me her. But don’t call me she, her, because you think that you’re belittling me or making me feel bad about myself for being feminine. That’s not the same thing. Same with he, him, or they, them or it, or whatever. Don’t use it out of hate. And I will respond out of love.

00:55:49 Kevin
What you’ve just said is really beautiful. What I would love is I would love our listeners to have a little pocket piece, a 12 word expression sentence that would allow them to live their authenticity, not necessarily bright and extravagant. And I believe you’re the person to help us understand this.

00:56:08 Juliano
12 words. Okay. This on the spot.

00:56:10 Kevin
Okay? Yeah.

00:56:12 Juliano
When you follow your heart’s true desire, the universe conspires for you.

00:56:19 Kevin
Wow.

00:56:20 Juliano
12 words.

00:56:21 Kevin
Beautiful.

00:56:22 Juliano
Follow your heart’s desire and the universe conspire desires to help you.

00:56:27 Kevin
Beautiful.

00:56:27 Juliano
It is the very essence of the story of the alchemist or the hero’s journey. Listen to your heart and go for it. Kevin. It took so much courage for you to let go of the life you were living and embrace the life you’re now living. You’re a musician, you’re an artist, but you’re a healer. I don’t know what goes into making a podcast of this level of success. It’s not easy.

00:56:57 Kevin
People like you. That’s what goes into making a podcast like this, Juliano.

00:57:01 Juliano
But behind the scenes. And I’m one of hundreds that you’re doing this with. So let me take a moment and honor you. I see you, Kevin Young. I see you, brother. I’ve always seen you. And I remember every word of our first meeting. I remember that D.E.I. workshop with Danielle. That’s her name. I remember every word in those meetings. I remember every face that was there. Because they were the people who believed in what we believe in. They are our tribe. Most of humanity is our tribe. We just are taught to see difference and separate. We’re not different. We’ve just been pulled apart. And I think what you recognize in meeting me is what I recognize in meeting you. What you call a light. A bright shining light. It’s gravity. We are celestial beings. Some of us are bright shining stars. Some of us are comets, meteors floating off on our own. Some of us are black holes and suck energy out of the life of bright shining stars. But they are all here and they serve a purpose. But when you recognize another bright shining star, you have two choices. You can either combine and make one really enormous shining star. That usually doesn’t go well. It usually implodes on itself and becomes a supernova. Or you can hang out and be in one another’s orbit and orbit really fast and really violently and become a neutron star. It’s dangerous, destructive, not good. Or you can delicately dance and see one another and the beautiful solar systems of life that you give.

00:58:48 Kevin
Juliano I’m gonna call that our symbionic dance. When two stars have that symbiote, yes, that’s what we are. For me, Juliano, Listen, I’m really conscious of time and I just want to say thank you.

00:58:59 Juliano
Thank you.

00:59:00 Kevin
Thank you for the kind words that you’ve just said about me. And I want to give a nod to J’aime and Rosemary, my colleagues. But thank you for those kind words. I am really delighted to have been able to spend some time with you and to hear you deeply, to hear and see your heart and your wicked sense of humor and your absolute love of the human incarnation. Juliano, you are a delight. Please take care and we will see you really soon. Thank you for tuning in for an episode of the Gifts of Trauma podcast with Compassionate Inquiry.

00:59:31 Juliano
Thank you, Kevin. Bye.

00:59:36 Rosemary
The Gifts of Trauma is a weekly podcast that features personal stories of trauma healing, transformation and the gifts revealed on the path to authenticity. 

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