00:00:01 Wendy

I’m done hustling. I don’t need to go fast.

00:00:07 J’aime

How far back do you track this, Wendy? Racing down the road to get somewhere.

00:00:13 Wendy

It goes back to having to be self-sufficient and take care of myself. Not having the luxury to relax, take it easy, pause, slow down, because there’s more to do. You have to do more. Constantly chasing the dangling carrot, the temporary pleasure of sitting at a stoplight in la. I was that person that was scrolling my social media, responding to a text message or something. There was no time. There was no time to stop and pause and do nothing and be. Institutionalized self abandonment. How normal it is to be a workaholic in hustle culture, and to go against that and not self abandon is scary. I either abandon myself or I get abandoned because I can’t show up and be the overachieving people-pleasing perfectionist. I’m done hustling. I don’t need to go fast. 

00:01:34 Rosemary

This is the Gifts of Trauma Podcast. Stories of transformation and healing through compassionate inquiry.

00:01:53 J’aime

Welcome back to the Gifts of Trauma Podcast. My name is J’aime, as in I love, and today I really do love to be here and welcoming you, Dr. Wendy Harris, to the show. Thank you so much for being here.

00:02:10 Wendy

Thank you for inviting me.

00:02:11 J’aime

I have long held a deep intrigue about you. I had a tiny brushing with you at the Compassionate inquiry Conference in 2022 and I was like, what a badass.

00:02:24 Wendy

So, thank you.

00:02:27 J’aime

You represent to me just upon having the pleasure of doing a little bit of research, so many experiences to mention, paths all converging into this integrated being that sits here before me, that I’m very excited to meet today, in a formal way. First and foremost, we know you as a Compassionate Inquiry founding facilitator. And so while we’re all just sinking into that, I really want to invite the Compassionate Inquiry approach into this conversation, and just begin Wendy, by asking you, what is your intention for this conversation that we’re having here today?

00:03:10 Wendy

Yeah, my, my intention is to explore my relationship to speed and busyness. And I just, I feel seen, I feel so seen by you, just acknowledging the integration of all of the work that I’ve done, and how it does converge in, into this moment and into how I show up, whether it’s at a conference or facilitating a group or with my individual clients and students. So thank you for that.

00:03:46 J’aime

Yeah, that’s an honor. It’s an honor for me. Wendy, I heard you say that your intention today is really to explore and sink into your relationship with speed and busyness. When you say that to me, like, I had to sit back and hold my heart and hold my stomach because that felt like you were mirroring me already. I think this is something that a lot of people are going to be relating to. So I thank you, and really welcome you to explore this in more depth.

00:04:21 Wendy

Yeah. I’m looking forward to the exploration and what might be uncovered and how it might help us and other people who listen.

00:04:30 J’aime

When I say that back to you, that I had to sit back and hold my stomach for a moment and take a deep breath. How do you experience that back?

00:04:41 Wendy

I felt it. I wanted to put my hand on my own heart. And I know that this really intense journey that I’ve been on around speed, busyness, slowing down… I felt the impact of it all in, In my belly, in my solar plexus. And the moment that I realized that speed is an addiction, I had the same response as you, just sitting back like, whoa! It checks all the boxes for an addictive behavior as Gabor Mate and Sat Dharam define it.

00:05:25 J’aime

The first thing that I remember is that an addiction is always serving a need. So let’s get it… let’s really take our time today and break this apart. Because if you’re out there listening right now and you’re starting to notice a visceral response to what we are opening up right now, I want to make sure that there’s space for everybody to just be coming along with us. I want to invite all the spaciousness here, to really explore this, because what you’re inviting us into today, Wendy, is really speaking to a cultural addiction. And, I also want to say that as I was making my tea and preparing for this conversation, my husband just dropped in, that the whole educational department has just been deleted in the United States. And I have to say that as this news continues to drop in, that part of me, that is an addict to fastness and busyness is getting really activated. And I want to place this conversation within the cultural context. One thing I heard you say that I hadn’t heard before about a trigger is that it’s a tip of an iceberg, and I’d never heard it articulated in that way. And I was like, wow, that’s so simple, and it’s so good. And so this is a really deeper question into this. And this is a water you wade in a lot, and you teach people about the sociocultural and the political context of addiction. You teach it. Okay. So I’m excited to ask you. When you’re triggered by something within this socio political context, does that have a different resonance? And does the iceberg still ring true? Is it different than say… because. Yeah, I’m seeing you nod your head. Does that question make sense?

00:07:19 Wendy

It makes sense, as I understand it. When it’s a socio political cause at the root of the pain and the beliefs, there’s less control over changing it. Where do you intervene when it’s this big as opposed to if it’s biological? What can I do to strengthen my parasympathetic nervous system? Take yoga classes, deep breathing, things like that. Or, part of my story most recently has included medication because of the panic attacks and the anxiety and the insomnia that got triggered after I left Los Angeles, where it was a very sympathetic, dominant ,hustle culture that I was a huge part of. So there’s also the psychological aspects of addiction. And so if it’s caused by relational trauma, which is my deepest passion, we can do something about it. We can go to therapy, we can do Compassionate Inquiry. There are all kinds of evidence based interventions for working with it. But the sociocultural is so far away that it feels so big. It’s institutionalized. It’s not like going to a therapist. What do I do? I don’t know what to do. Right? Usually there’s an answer, there’s a path forward.

00:09:03 J’aime

Yeah. I think it’s so important that we do acknowledge, that we’re in a real mapless territory right now. Yeah. And if I’m getting triggered because I just heard that the whole educational system was deleted and that student loans are…. I have many friends still in the United States who have the same story, that have lived a life of service. That trigger is different than triggering a childhood trauma. Something that happened to me. Right? And so I feel very privileged right here and right now to be with you, with someone who has held so many facets of approaches, literally facets, not just Compassionate Inquiry, but Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, Dialectical Therapy, Kundalini, on and on. And so as we talk about the tools you have that teach you to stay, or that help you stay in your body, in the moment, in your position, in your service, I wonder what’s coming alive for you right now, when I say these things so much.

00:10:14 Wendy

I want to start writing it down so I don’t forget. Yeah. So one thing that I’ve been aware of is the fight, flight or freeze response. And leaving would be a flight response. There are people in Congress, for example, that are the fighters, the judges there and, and people that are marching, they are fighting. I’m not a fighter. And that’s not my job. And I’m really clear about that, which helps me to not feel, to believe that I’m responsible or I’m not doing enough because I’m not marching. I’m really clear that’s not my job. And so for me, it’s more, so don’t freeze because I’m a freezer. I’m a dissociator. I’m a let’s just check out and get through it however we can get through it. So that was one point I wanted to make, is like, how do you stay engaged and present in this moment? 

The other thing is when you mention Cognitive Behavior Therapy, Dialectical Behavior Therapy, part of these times reminds me of the pandemic when I was working with my clients. And it was different because the fear is real, the anger is real, the grief is real. And we’re not dealing with cognitive distortions or misperceptions or beliefs that don’t fit the facts. So there used to be a lot of how do we change the beliefs and the feelings when it’s out of alignment? But it’s actually, it fits. So what do we do when it fits? As we know, in Compassionate Inquiry, we validate the feelings and there’s a possibility that the perceptions and the beliefs are accurate as well. And then the last piece I wanted to comment on is, we all just got out of a trauma, we survived the pandemic, and so this would be the time for the post traumatic stress to be kicking in. And then we’re hit with another trauma. And so we’re talking about how it’s impacting us, as far as the Department of Education goes, that’s the personal impact I’m having. But what about the families that are facing deportation? The list goes on and on, about other ways that people are being impacted. With the prices going up for groceries, again that could be a whole conversation. But what I have been tapping into is that it’s a re traumatization for so many people that I work with. Just like Covid was a re traumatization of my childhood, of the isolation of really big feelings, not having any power or control, and being all alone by myself to figure it out. And so there are some people that can look at the news and yeah, there are some really terrible things happening, and there are other people that are frozen by it, and recognizing that it’s because there’s a re traumatization which magnifies the impact. Other times where they were bullied, other times where they were dismissed, other times when their needs didn’t matter, and they had nowhere to go, and they couldn’t do anything about it to affect or impact the problem. So my work with myself, and with the folks I work with, is what can we do? What is our job? So if you’re a parent, be the best parent you can be. Be there for your kids. Right now, I’ve got several projects that I’m working on, thank goodness, because it keeps me focused on what I can do. I plan to stay, I don’t plan to fight. And I’m not freezing.

00:14:28 J’aime

Yeah. That was impeccable tracking of all those pieces.

00:14:33 Wendy

I do it for a living.

00:14:35 J’aime 

That I laid in front of you. Let’s give everybody’s nervous system a chance to catch up. Need a little space. Yeah. I’m talking to a weaver. And so this conversation is just going to weave, and I trust in the weave, and the spirit is going to carry us through. Wendy, I want to go back to this idea of being a freezer, this acceptance and acknowledgement that this is your adaptation. And many of us share that. I share that. And I have just over this last weekend, this is where I, like, really looked at the collective consciousness, and I’m like, I see you. Thank you for bringing a sister right in front of my face to talk to me about my reality right now. Because I noticed for the first time this weekend that I was moving through life very disassociated, and I was getting a lot done in that space.

00:15:30 Wendy

Yeah. Yes. 

00:15:32 J’aime

Yeah. And I’m watching you shake your head. Yes. So you talk to me now about what. What that looks like in your world and bring us back into this conversation that’s always gonna revolve back to this addiction to speed.

00:15:43 Wendy

Yeah. Yeah. And again, I feel seen. I’ve never… I know I’ve been described as a weaver, but I far from follow a linear path, and I can really get on something and just go and then stop myself and recognize, wow! I just said a lot. It’s the speed. And I also recently acknowledged, I’ve had ADHD my entire life. And so accepting that’s also how my brain works.

00:16:21 J’aime

How was that for you to find out, and how has that been impacting you to know about your brain?

00:16:27 Wendy

Such a relief because I look at how hard things have been, and thank goodness I am smart and I am intuitive. But had I received a proper diagnosis, life could have been a lot easier for me. And so at this point in time, I’m just grateful because, there’s a lot that I want and need to do that calls for more stillness. I’m done hustling. I don’t need to go fast.

00:17:00 J’aime

That’s a big statement coming from somebody like you. I had listened to a few conversations in preparation for today, and I recall one person commenting on how you had completed your level II Kundalini training in two years, which is apparently unheard of. And you replied, that’s how I roll.

00:17:19 Wendy

Yeah, like a badge of honor, right? I listened to a few of the podcasts before the interview because I didn’t really know what to expect. And there was the part where, I’ve heard you ask people in the beginning, to introduce themselves, apart from the bio. So I gave it some thought. And at first I thought, gosh, I have no idea how to identify myself, aside from all of these identities that have been earned, and the busyness and the speed has served me well. But when I thought about, ‘who am I now and how would I introduce myself?’ I love slow mornings. I used to have to jump out of bed and the day was on. And just, in LA, I went to a morning yoga class every day. It’s how I started my morning. So now I’m literally on probation. Like, a legal judge put me on probation because I got a speeding ticket. I was going 100 miles per hour. And, I see your eyebrows, right? Like, what was the speed limit, right? It was 75, so I was like, 25 miles over. I drive a fast car and I love driving fast. There was nowhere that I needed to be at a certain time. I wasn’t running behind, I wasn’t late. I was just speeding. And the lights go on and I’m like, surely they’re not pulling me over. And then I look, I’m like, oh, my God. I was going 100, and I didn’t even know it. I go to…. They offer Zoom Court here in New Mexico. So I’m on Zoom Court and pled not guilty. Go figure. So much for taking 100% responsibility. But I thought I had a fighting chance, and I went back to court, and because I have a clean record, don’t ask me why or how, I got a fine of $10 and probation. And the judge said, as long as you don’t break any laws, this will all be erased. Sure enough, I get in the car and I’m speeding again, because I’m wired that way. I get behind the wheel and I’m going fast. And I don’t stop at stop signs. I do a rolling stop. And you need to put a post it note up on the little thing. In your car that says don’t forget you’re on probation. And he told me 30 days, but I just got all the paperwork and I’m on probation for 90 days. And I was thinking to myself, gosh, you know what, I hope I can make it for 30 days. Just my luck, I get pulled over again. But now I have to sustain this law abiding behavior for like another two and a half months. Like a gentle tap on the shoulder and an opportunity. And he made light of it and said, Ms Harris, just don’t go robbing any banks. That’s not something I would be inclined to do. But this speeding thing. Wow, there I go again. Racing down the road to get somewhere. Yeah.

00:21:12 J’aime

How far back do you track this Wendy, racing down the road to get somewhere?

00:21:19 Wendy

It goes back to my childhood. It goes back to… I grew up in Denver. I grew up in Denver and there was an airport called Stapleton Airport. And my mom made light of it. She called it the Stapleton Stomp. So we were always showing up late to places, and when we had a flight to catch, it’s me, my little sister and my mom running through the airport to catch a plane. So yeah, my entire life my mom was hustling and speeding and busy and not present.

00:22:08 J’aime

A very visual story. Yeah, I can see you running in front. Is that what it was like for you? Do you feel like that was one of the things you had to stay on top of, the itinerary of life?

00:22:23 Wendy

Yeah, I definitely had to stay on top of it. You know what? I’m remembering a more recent moment 15, 20 years ago when I graduated from my doctoral program, and we had to be at graduation at a certain time, the class photo. And my mom was just like taking her time as this is important to me. I want to be in the class photo with my classmates. So yeah, having to be the person who keeps track of time. I’m even that person when I’m facilitating compassionate inquiry bi weeklies, because that provides safety in the container. If everyone could just set their timers. The check in is going to be for 90 seconds in the biweekly. We’ve got a hard stop at the end of 90 minutes. But it’s a discipline and a structure that I have created for myself, even for safety.

00:23:31 J’aime

Of course you have. I want to send some love to your heart right now.

00:23:34 Wendy

Thank you.

00:23:35 J’aime

It doesn’t feel good to feel like you have to remind people that things are important.Did you want to say something?

00:23:43 Wendy

That just really landed. Because I did grow up wondering, is my mom just too busy, or does she not love me? I must not matter. I didn’t realize how unsafe I was because of all of the fast hustling. I had a major PTSD dream, where I was running through the airport as an adult trying to find someone that could help me and I’m lost. And I eventually make it to the gate at the last minute and there was my mom just kind of standing there, like not excited to see me or anything. But it was like so representative and also super helpful because it’s putting me in touch with the frantic, terrified truth child that had to hustle and keep up. But yeah, the pain that I started to unpack and continue to unpack around what it… was like to wonder, is she just too busy or does she really not love me, and I really don’t matter. Other things are more important. I’m not a priority. Yeah. And then how my behaviors could impact other people. Thank goodness I have friends that yes, I have been very busy. But reassuring people that it doesn’t mean that you don’t matter and I don’t care. I’m just exhausted, or I had a really full day and I can’t ‘people’ anymore.

00:25:33 J’aime

Yeah. As I’m letting that just settle into my body and it’s really needing a little bit of time too, cuz I feel that so much. I just have to, in classic Compassionate iIquiry manner, ask you how related does this feel to the intention we began with? What you’re saying right now about the busyness.

00:25:56 Wendy

Yeah. That feels very much in alignment with the drive at the root of staying busy and going fast. You know, the fear, the survival that is the underlying motivation, and at the same time compassion, real compassion. So very much in alignment. If we go back to what is an addiction, an addictive behavior, you get some temporary pleasure or relief, right, from the fear of… Fear, it goes back to having to be self sufficient and take care of myself. Yeah. So not having the luxury to relax, take it easy, pause, slow down, because there’s more to do. You have to do more. There’s like constantly chasing the dangling carrot. The temporary pleasure or relief. Sitting at a stoplight in LA. I was that person that was scrolling my social media or responding to a text message or something. There was no time. There was no time to stop and pause and do nothing and be.

00:27:22 J’aime

It’s like, kind of a metaphor for LA. The perfect place to just reinforce all that behavior so long. And I understand now how disruptive to that pattern it must have been for you to leave it and come to Santa Fe.

00:27:37 Wendy

Yeah, yeah. It was disruptive and necessary. It was time. It was absolutely time. The big adjustment to my nervous system. Everything was really shutting down in LA. So no more morning yoga classes. My university had gone entirely remote, and so I was actually free to go. And I was meditating one morning, and this voice said to me, you are free to go. So I’d been in the heart of LA for over 20 years, and I arrived at multiple crossroads where I thought, is it time yet? Is it time to go? I know this is not the place where I’m gonna grow old. This is not my forever home. And I’ll know when it’s time. And so each time I arrived at a crossroads, another chapter would begin. And so much to my surprise, I got the message, you’re free to go now. And then my next question was, where am I going? And it was crystal clear. I was going to Santa Fe.

00:28:53 J’aime

What do you make of those words? You are free to go. That sounds very profound, to be directed at you. You’re free to go.

00:29:02 Wendy

Yeah. I believe the voice is always there. But when I am so busy doing things and going from one thing to another, there’s no space for the voice, for me to hear the voice. And so, as things were decelerating, there is a space and an opening.

00:29:26 J’aime

I’m reminded again of your mellow mornings. And I see that intention of carrying that space and that openness into your life on a daily basis. There’s something you said earlier that I wanted to touch on as we’re contextualizing this within an addiction context, and it had to do with the rewards that you received. And I even remember, in the opening of our conversation, in my first impression of you. “What a badass.” How deeply, relationally reinforced this behavior of yours was, that you’re having the courage now to disrupt. And I would love to get into that space of disrupting the pattern a little more. Right?

00:30:12 J’aime

Because this is again, this is what you teach. Because this is the place where it becomes really unstable.

00:30:19 Wendy

Yeah, yeah. I appreciate, like the all of the pattern interrupters. Like that little voice that shows up. Sometimes it’s the little voice. And there have been other times where it’s like a two by tour across the forehead. And the first time it happened, I was literally hit by a cement mixer. And that was a huge shift. Up until that moment, I was a bartender and a club promoter at a high energy dance club. So you can imagine the pace of that. And I had said, you know, if I’m still doing this when I turn 30, someone shoot me. And so I had a really severe closed head injury that slowed me down. And more recently, I was offered a sabbatical by my university, my first time ever sabbatical. Right? So 10 years in academia, and I am offered a paid leave, and I’m writing my memoir. And memoir writing, it’s vulnerable, it’s deep, it brings up a lot, and it requires space, to be with all of it. And so my sabbatical, I’m going to backtrack a little bit, was kicked off. Funny, I used the word kicked off, with knee surgery. I’ve never had an injury, even though I used to race snowboarding, as a teenager. This is a fun fact. I was on a pro snowboarding tour when I was a teenager, and I love to go fast. And that was before helmets, way before helmets. So I was doing a yoga posture that I have done, literally thousands of times over the course of decades. And I tore my meniscus, and so I had surgery, which meant being on crutches for a while. And now I’m in physical therapy, taking steps slowly, one by one. Literally one by one. And even my physical therapist said a few days ago, I’m gonna have to watch you, because he could tell I was ready to get going. And so it’s like finding that… I think it’s Dan Siegel that talks about the window of tolerance. Right? You want to be in just the right… Like the Goldilocks effect. It’s not too much. It’s not too little. You have to be really attuned with the healing. And it was even the same with my closed head injury. I remember them saying, you don’t want to go all the way to the edge, where your brain knows that it’s reached its limit, and can’t go further. I’m totally paraphrasing. Like, edge work. Right? You get up to the edge, but not over.

00:33:13 J’aime

Tell me… Correct me if I’m wrong, but that was your MO. The edge of the adrenaline and the energy of just making you go so hard all the time.

00:33:23 Wendy

Yeah.

00:33:23 J’aime

What a disruption.

00:33:24 Wendy

Yeah. So to start a sabbatical, a friend invited me to a soft opening of her retreat center at a remote location in Mexico. And I was fed and well cared for in just beautiful accommodations. And I got back a day and a half before my surgery, and again, I was so well cared for. A good friend of mine drove me to Taos, New Mexico, where, like, the knee guy is, the best knee guy. And I stayed with her, and she Brought me coffee in bed in the morning and breakfast and lunch and all of it. And I had this realization for the first time, so deeply knowing it’s okay to slow down, it’s okay to rest and put your feet up, because you are cared for. Not taken care of, cared for. So whether it was in the hammock at the retreat center or at my friend’s house, life-changing. And then in the bigger context being in this sabbatical space where I have a salary and benefits while I have the space to write my memoir.

00:34:49 J’aime

I’m truly witnessing you in this moment of busting up that belief of that one running through the airport, the stomp town or whatever your mother called it. What is that like for you right now?

00:35:07 Wendy

Oh, I feel amazing. I am in such uncharted territory. I have never experienced what I’m experiencing, in… since, it’s actually started at the beginning of the year since January. Again, pattern interrupters. I was diagnosed with ovarian cancer the day that I finished my doctoral program. Who gets ovarian cancer at my age when you’re healthy, and it makes perfect sense. I was pounding red bulls over caffeinated, zero self care because I was chasing the dangling carrot, and I got to the finish line and it almost killed me. And so I was fighting for my life. Actually I think I’ve been fighting for my life for a really long time.

00:36:00 J’aime

You’re a fighter too, when you look back.

00:36:04 Wendy

Apparently yeah, it was a different kind of fight. And last year I got really sick and the doctor was testing me for everything. And the last test out of all, they’re like we’re going to test you for HIV and hepatitis. I know that sounds weird. It’s not weird, like something is up and it’s not Covid and it’s not the flu and it ended up being Epstein Barr, and apparently a lot of us have it. But my viral load was over 600. They stopped tracking it at 600 and I think you’re positive for the virus at 30, and stress is the trigger. So I realized oh, I had to really monitor my stress, and say no, because that’s a whole other piece is the people-pleasing perfectionist that so much of my memoir is about, this way of being. What I became aware of last year I spent a month in Europe starting with the trauma conference at Oxford, and going on to Romania for the CI conference, followed by a nine day Beyond Addiction retreat that I was co facilitating. And I had just gotten to the other side of Epstein Barr, and I ended up with COVID in Romania. I think a lot of us did after that conference. Gabor had it. And I remember not being sure that I could do my presentation. And it was on Compassionate Inquiry and DBT, the intersection. Gabor’s presenting and signing books and doing all of these things with COVID And I remember whenever he and I have had one on one and more than one on one, even group interactions, I always take such a profound lesson from it. So he and I met in the hallway in the hotel, and we were having a conversation and he had gotten sick. And I, at some point, the body says no. And he looked at me and he said, Wendy, the body has definitely said no. We just had our biggest audience ever, live audience, 4700 people the week before. He said, there’s all these people that have come here, to hear me speak from over 60 countries. I can’t disappoint them. 

And I looked at my responsibility. I was there to present at the conference, and I had to show up, and I had to keep my commitment to teach Beyond Addiction. But when I wasn’t teaching, I was in my room resting, preparing to teach. And I had this moment where I’d been in my room resting, and not feeling well at all, knowing what I still needed to show up for. And one of the facilitators posted on our WhatsApp chat and said, if someone could bring some medication to breakfast, I’m not feeling well. I thought, oh, my gosh, that was so simple. It didn’t even cross my mind to ask somebody to bring me food or medicine. Everyone figured that I was out dancing, or out at a dinner, or with this group or that group. Nobody knew I was in my room alone, by myself, because I hadn’t told anyone and I hadn’t asked for help. That realization brought me to tears. It just goes back to a deeper belief of not mattering, because I knew that I mattered to people, and I knew that people were there to help. All I needed to do was ask. So some of the old scripts didn’t even fit. 

But the belief that there’s nobody to help, there’s nobody to ask for help, I’m all alone and I’ve got to show up. I have to show up no matter what. So I had this realization. And again, it was like that little voice that showed up that was telling me, you are an important part of this machine. You are a cog in the wheel of the machine. You matter. You have an important place in it, all of that. But you’re not a machine. And if you are going to sustain yourself. You have to figure it out. We have to slow down, set boundaries, and you have to say no. I was confronted with a fear that if I were to say no, and set a boundary, being authentic, that I would lose the connections, I would lose the attachment, I would lose the opportunity. But again, it’s as if my life depends upon it. I can’t go at the pace that other people go. I get hit by cement mixers. I get cancer. I have an Epstein Barr flare up. I get speeding tickets.

00:41:22 J’aime

You break your knee.

00:41:23 Wendy

Yeah. And so the last thing I’m gonna share, I think, I don’t know, there’s probably more, is this word that came to me, again. I’m in a lot of space right now. And the word is ‘institutionalized self abandonment.’ We started there, right? Like how normal it is to be a workaholic in hustle culture. And to go against that, and not self-abandon is scary. Back to the fear, right? I either abandon myself or I get abandoned because I can’t show up and be the overachieving, people-pleasing perfectionist.

00:42:15 J’aime

So what happened at the conference? Did you speak? Did you finish? You got through?

00:42:21 Wendy

I did. I did. I killed it. I rocked it.

00:42:24 J’aime

Wow.

00:42:24 Wendy

I barely can remember, but there’s a recording of it too. It looked and sounded really good. You know what? And I think that’s what happens when you’re a professional and know your stuff, that you can do it. And the Beyond Addiction Retreat. On a scale of 1 to 10, I showed up as a 4 or 5. I like to show up as a 10 or an 11. Some of my friends would jokingly call me an 11 on a scale of 1 to 10. Right. And then it occurred to me, those women couldn’t have handled me at a 10 or a 6. I showed up exactly the way I needed to show up. And it was gentle and spacious.

00:43:11 J’aime

Thank you so much for saying that. There is so much potency in that level four and level five, because you’ve never been there before.

00:43:19 Wendy

That’s right. That’s right.

00:43:21 J’aime

You’re gathering things. You’re touching parts of yourself that have been institutionally abandoned. All of your self abandoned all of your life. I’m really feeling that and I’m feeling deep gratitude for that. I’m going to wager to say that, I think it’s important because it’s a very paradoxical conversation we’re in right now where the author of when the Body says no stood up and said, I have to speak right now. 60 countries worth of people are counting on me to speak, and then you also went into that space and excelled. And I want to say, I believe that this is the collective healing, this is the collective energy that you were tapped into. What do you think about that?

00:44:07 Wendy

That’s a new possibility. And I notice my body, like moving around and creating space for that. Yeah. Something bigger that I’m connected to. Yeah, that we are connected to. That’s all around us. That we. If we create the space and the opening and invite it in, it doesn’t have to be hard. Wow, this is interesting. It’s like the only way to really access it is through slowing down you and creating space. Because the busy hustle abandoner believes that she’s got to do it on her own, she’s got to make it happen. She’s got to take care of herself and be self sufficient

00:44:49 J’aime

And nobody understands her pain. It’s just a constant reinforcing loop of abandonment then and believing you’re abandoned. And as we start to finish up our conversation, I feel it’s really important that we meet this potential of what’s available to us at this time.  Because, as you said, the beliefs that we might be feeling in this institutional iceberg in the ocean, those beliefs fit in that place. We’re not wrong for getting triggered in that space. But we’re also not alone in the experience, because as you said, while we are talking about school loans and education, the people you’ve always served, are talking about the complete overnight abandonment of any kind of diversity, equity, inclusion idea. And we, as we all know, we could go on and on about that, but that’s not what the show is. The show is here to unite in that messy middle that you were talking about again, of the disruption pattern. And as we start to close up, if it’s okay, can I just reflect one thing that you’ve already summarized? But I wanna, yeah… I’m really in awe of your soul’s deep love and commitment to transmitting truth to you throughout your life. That we’re so, I’ll use the word concrete and clear, because what the hell does concrete do? You get stuck in it. A concrete mixer is such an incredible metaphor. And I want to leave some space for you to reflect on that.

00:46:31 Wendy

Yeah, yeah. And if I can just say one more thing, I feel like this is the taste of victory moment, this idea of institutionalized self-abandonment. While institutions are abandoning us that are supposed to be there to take care of us, what is our job, to connect, to not self abandon. And it reminds me of so much of that deep healing work that can happen in Compassionate Inquiry when I learned that my parents both abandoned me for different reasons. And how do I not self-abandon? So very similar. This is a time where we are being and have been abandoned by our country, leadership, institutions. And so what do we do? We no longer self-abandon. This is a time for connection with ourselves and with each other. It’s the only way we’re going to get through this.

00:47:40 J’aime

Talk about how you see that playing out in your experience. How do you not self-abandon?

00:47:46 Wendy

Oh, for me it’s having boundaries, it’s saying no. It’s creating community right here. Where I live, bringing people together. I’ve been encouraging a lot of my clients who are leaders as well to do the same thing. Not self-abandoning. Limiting time on social media and watching the news, like just enough to be aware. And a big one for me is nourishing myself. Nourishing with cooking really healthy, yummy meals. And the body work that I’m receiving these days, as you might imagine, has a very different pace and flow. It’s slow, it’s cranial sacral, it’s holding, it’s subtle and powerful, at some level.

00:48:40 J’aime

Speed. Zero to one kind of access right there. And this asking for help.

00:48:46 Wendy

Yeah. And being discerning about who is in my inner circle, and where am I putting my attention.

00:48:54 J’aime

Discernment is self-honoring. Yeah, that’s deep. That’s deep self love, to have discernment. So I know a lot of women, I just know they’re relating so much listening. And I’m trusting also that this is connecting to the feminine in men as well. Because what I really hear you also inviting us to do, Wendy, is to become more vulnerable, to curate the space where we can be more vulnerable and honest about what we need and that we can be honest when we’re receiving something that is breaking the paradigm that drove us for so long. ‘I am cared for.’ I feel so much courage being transmitted just from you to me and so much validation. And I’m going to make a personal pact to you, while everyone’s listening, that I’m going to continue striving for one to two paced, in this time of my life. Striving to slow down. I just want to change the frequency of that word altogether. And as you see me, I’m going to ask you to look in and see all the people that are listening right now. And what would you like to leave? Okay. So looking into my heart and into my eyes, what can I put in my medicine pouch to break my addiction to speed?

00:50:24 Wendy

Yeah, it’s worth it. It’s worth it. Trust me. Believe me, it is worth it.

00:50:35 J’aime

Yeah.

00:50:35 Wendy

It’s not easy because it’s a pattern, it’s a habit. We’re wired this way and it’s so worth it. But just like any addiction, it can be challenging to create new habits, and to learn that when we stop self-abandoning, we turn toward the pain and whatever is at the root of the speed and the busyness, the fear, all of it. We stop and we slow down. It’s so worth it. That’s where the, dare I say, the magic… I don’t know. I don’t know what’s coming. I don’t know what’s going to happen next, but this is the way to access it.

00:51:16 J’aime

Yes, please do say magic.

00:51:19 Wendy

It feels magic. Yeah.

00:51:22 J’aime

I want to highlight the word you said, ‘it’s worth it,’ because that’s a charged word. And that really gets to the pit of why I rush. It’s to earn a space on this planet. I keep recycling through different iterations of oh, we’re back at that thing where I don’t think I deserve to be here unless I’m doing a lot right now. And the pile just continues to amass itself in these times. And it’s teaching us that it’s not about that anymore, it’s about getting down to that level 1, 0, 1, 2 that we’ve never explored before. That’s some new terrain and there’s some new answers in there.

00:52:00 Wendy

That it’s worth it message came to me when I was in Mexico and I was with a very small hand, selected group of folks that have been making some very courageous choices, not necessarily popular or accepted choices, in the midst of a lot of pain and a lot of rupture, global community level rupture. And I got the message that it was worth it, because we all chose authenticity. We chose truth rather than to deny for whatever reason, but that it was all worth it. So that’s been a mantra that I’m carrying as I dig into the archives of my huge Rubbermaid bin of journals and memorabilia. And some of it’s a bit painful when I look back. Wow. Really went through it. Oh. Oh, my God. I just want to hug her and tell her that it’s going to be worth it in the end. It’s going to be worth it. This… all of the suffering and pain and addiction of which speed and busyness was the least of it. Yeah.

00:53:16 J’aime

I’m here to celebrate what’s happening right here. So grateful to tap in and meet you now as you’re on probation from your body, probation from a judge, probation from whatever other… your soul needed to design for you. To hear that you’re taking a new path in your life, and it’s a beautiful thing to witness. Dear Wendy Harris, would you like to say anything more?

00:53:43 Wendy

Just gratitude. Grateful for this opportunity to connect and share and express what’s here now.

00:53:59 Kevin

If you’re not a therapist or a healer, but you heard our guest describe the personal transformations they experienced during their Compassionate Inquiry journeys and when wonder what might that be like for me? There is a program that is offered to anyone who wants to experience the power of Gabor Mate’s approach to Trauma healing. I’m Kevin Young and I’ve been facilitating CI circles since 2022. I’ve seen people transform in many ways. I’ve seen people change beliefs, relationships. I’ve seen people cheat, change how they show up in the world. I have seen people literally change how they look in front of my very eyes. There are many, many ways that people change during Compassion Inquiry Circles Circles is a 10 week small group experience. Click the link in the show Notes that’ll bring you to a web page that gives you all you’ll need to figure out if this is for you.

00:55:06 Rosemary

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