00:00:02 Rosemary
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So what came to me is like we’ve got this army of healers forming, which in our uncertain times, they will be needed. They are showing up, they are training. But what if once they’re trained and ready to serve, they can’t get past this marketing block? They can’t get past how dirty it feels to use these traditional approaches. And what if they don’t put themselves out there and they can’t be found by the people they’re trained to serve? And that was when it came to me. We’ve got to radically shift the way we market. 

This is the Gifts of Trauma podcast. Stories of transformation and healing through Compassionate Inquiry.

00:01:10 Kevin

So welcome back to the second part of a two part conversation with Rosemary Davies-Janes, if you haven’t, I would highly recommend going, listening, to the first episode. For now, J’aime and I are going to continue our conversation with Rosemary.

Okay, Rosemary, I have loads more questions and I want to take… Let’s do Rosemary style and we’ll take our 90 degree turn again if that’s okay. And I want to pull you back a little bit before we come back to the Magnetic Presence Marketing, which just sounds delightful. Yeah. We’ll talk about how people can get in touch with you and how they can access that. But I want to bring you back and there was a couple of things that, a couple of pieces of information that I got and I want to just fire a couple of words at you and get a one or two sentence answer from you. Just quick fire. Empath versus warrior.

00:02:58 Rosemary

Ooh, it’s not a versus

Kevin

Good answer.

00:03:05 Rosemary

Yeah! I thought I’d, I thought I’d be challenged. I’m a long form copywriter and I managed to get but not one or two sentences with three words.

00:03:13 Kevin
So. So tell me then if I was to say to you then empath and warrior.

00:03:18 Rosemary
Yeah, that is… I think I would call an empath-warrior a magician. They know when to shapeshift into holding and they know when to shapeshift into defending, protecting, keeping whatever is a threat at bay.

00:03:44 Kevin

Yeah. They know when to trust and when to count four by twos. Yes. Okay. Discarded and adopted.

00:03:53 Rosemary

Oh, that one goes deep. I think that comes to really being chosen, being valued and chosen. Yeah. Although it took me a lot of years to see that. 

00:04:13 Kevin

Sure. And I just want to offer that that’s maybe another string that you have to your bow in that… that’s a deep wounding for a lot of people throughout their whole life, their whole adult life. And for you to be able to offer that to people as well. And I get it. Discarded and chosen. Even in our work, in our work, in the work that we do to be solopreneurs, there can be a lot of discarded and chosen. Misfit and universal fit.

00:04:49 Rosemary

Yeah, yeah. That really comes to self acceptance, internal acceptance versus allowing the external world to judge and measure. Just rejecting that, and allowing inner knowledge of who you are to override those concerns about, What will people think?

00:05:19  Kevin

Thank you. Artist and utilitarian.

00:05:25 Rosemary

The best way to explain this is practical design. When I did my house flips, they were beautiful and they were practical. You’d walk in the house, the light switch is where you expect it to be. The bench, where you need to sit to put your shoes on, is where you expect it to be. Everything is in the most practical location from a usage perspective, and it’s beautiful. So the artist and the utilitarian tag team beautifully in house flips.

00:06:02   Kevin

I feel like making a joke there and saying, and maybe that’s just you. Exactly where it needs to be and beautiful, Rosemary. Huh. Strategic and tactical?

00:06:12 Rosemary

Yes. Being able to see the big picture and then, like a raptor, swoop in and detect the granular – simultaneously.

00:06:30  Kevin

Okay, thank you. Collaborator and leader.

00:06:35 Rosemary

Mmmmm. Being part of the team and gently guiding the team, simultaneously. So titrating in a very seamless way.

00:06:51 Kevin

I think that’s maybe a skill that I could do with learning a little bit. Sometimes I find myself making the charge, being the leader up over the hill with my… whatever it is, my desire raised with that charge, expecting that the rest of the people that I work with have charged behind me. And then I stop and turn around and think, ah, maybe I didn’t bring the people along with me that were meant to come along. So to hear you describe yourself and your work as that, I think that would be a skill that I could… You could teach me a little bit of that sometime, Rosemary

00:07:30 J’aime

Can we just do a little hallelujah moment and an amen moment that, like, this is an elder, a beautiful elder, that this is like, where it comes from. That’s how you get it. And fortunately, we’ve got some years in us to have that, really. Because to have either one is a gift. But to be able to hold both of those two, leader and collaborator together, it’s the work of a sage to arrive to that. And I’m reminded all the time, similarly, Kevin, because I have so much hot coal that runs through me, and learning how to tend the fire and move the coals around lovingly, instead of stoking them sometimes with fury, because there’s passion. I mean, It’s a really incredible, alchemical, nuanced place to arrive to. And I think that is just… We have to name that in this conversation because Rosemary is well into the years when a woman gets erased. It’s real. And here she is rising in her magnificence and in her service, the pinnacle, in her 60s. Amazing!

00:08:56  Rosemary

Thank you. Thank you. And I don’t want to be… That was lovely. And I’ve been doing this since I was in my 40s, ever since I left the corporate world. I so rejected the hierarchical model. I always wanted to work alongside, and I always wanted to understand the other’s perspective. That was some training I had that was extremely valuable back when I was at Toys R Us^®, that I resisted with every part of my being. It was just two hours every other week. Cross functional team meeting. I had to sit and listen to reporting from Accounts Payable, Accounts Receivable, Logistics, Operations. And I was way behind as a working manager. But I learned so much. I learned empathy and understanding of what the other leaders of the other departments in the organization were going through, and what they had to deal with. And that shifted as soon as I left the corporate world when I was 40. It’s, I don’t want to be above you, I want to work alongside you. I want to learn from you. I want to understand your perspective. And when I do, I was always the team leader. I put together marketing professionals to create a website. We’d have our developer, we’d have our designer, we’d have all these people. But the results that they created when they were empowered to just use their expertise with understanding, and a leader that was alongside them, supporting them, it was night and day from what I experienced following the corporate hierarchy, and I loved it.

00:10:39 Kevin

And for me, Rosemary, maybe giving a nod as well to the reason we’re all here is Compassionate Inquiry. And I always wanted to do that, too…. so long as people did it the way I wanted them to do it, and learning… And I think that was fear driven. That was fear driven. If I don’t do it, it won’t get done. No one else will do it as good as me. If they do it, I’m going to have to do it anyway. And to be able to offer that space to people that, you know, you use the word empowering and we haven’t used the word illuminating yet, but that idea of being illuminated by Nina, and now you illuminating others, it absolutely builds stronger teams, without a shadow of a doubt. More respectful teams, more engaged teams, teams that get better results. Even the definition of Team is a group of people that work together, as opposed to a group of people that are pulled along or cudgeled or threatened by somebody who holds all the power and all the finances and all the money? Yeah. Thank you, J’aime, for naming that. And maybe that is an ability, Rosemary, of yours as well, to understand your own masculine and feminine energies as well. That leader and collaborator, the seeker and the nurturer. Okay, we were meant to be doing. We were meant to be doing two sentence answers on these. Now they’re in a whole conversation. They’re just so good. Your answers are so good. Spiritual and secular.

00:12:14 Rosemary

The practical yogi. This is like artist and utilitarian, spiritual concepts, earthly execution.

00:12:24 Kevin

Thank you. That’s that little section over. Thank you for humoring me and allowing me to add those little questions. I just, when I read them, Rosemary, they were really insightful. I think that for someone who is going to guide people, what was that sentence that was right at the start? The sentence was. helping people find their fit. And if someone is going to help people find their fit, a great understanding of people might be useful in that too. And to have a great understanding of people, a great understanding of yourself would be essential. And it seems that through those reflections, that you have that, and what that’s offering me in this moment is safety. I can come to you and be… Even if I was to describe myself, I can be chaotic yet heart centered. I can be fun loving and the jester and be deeply grounded. I can swear with a multitude of swear words and be deeply spiritual and reverent. And sometimes I would perceive that if I describe that to people, they will want me to chop some of them away. And what I hear you as you describe the work that you do and yourself is that you’re welcoming all that.

00:13:51 Rosemary

Absolutely welcoming it, bring it on. And because… I find it so interesting, I talk a lot about distilling the essence. So the more, in a way, the more parts of themselves people bring, the more I get to work with in terms of integrating and distilling. You know, if you think of a fine scotch, if there’s an ingredient missing, the distillation is not going to produce the age-old recipe, if that’s what’s desired.

00:14:28 J’aime

The notes, the notes

00:14:32 Rosemary

The notes! So I say bring it on. I used to use this metaphor, it’s bring yourself as a box of Lego, the biggest box, the most Lego. Dump it all out. We’ll figure out how it all goes together.

00:14:44 Kevin

So how is that received Rosemary by the people that you work with? Give me a little insight into that. So I come with my big box of Lego. In your experience, how is that perceived by people?

00:14:56 Rosemary

It’s perceived as freeing. They don’t have to show some parts and hide some parts. I think they get as curious as me, at the process. It’s like, what is all of this going to distill down to? It’s something I call, today I call it a through line. It’s like you’ve got all these passions, you’ve got interests that go back years and years, maybe started when you were a little kid. You’ve got tendencies, you’ve got talents, you’ve got skills. Let’s put them all together and run them through the distillation process, and see how they refine into your essence. And then once people have their essence, it’s something that they can go back to. It will evolve a little bit. Only as that fine Scotch ages. That’s the kind of evolution that we do. The essence is always there. And it’s such a relief. People would say, this makes so much sense. I never saw it from this perspective before because I would say, well, of course, this is an interest, this is a strength, this is your background. How could you be doing anything else than the three things that you can’t figure out how to put together? Here’s how they go together.

00:16:13 Kevin

Rosemary, can I check in with you right now? I’m just working something out for myself here. As I sit and listen to you, how are you feeling in this moment?

00:16:22 Rosemary

I’m feeling very heard and seen and very comfortable. This is talking about work that I love, talking about supporting people in a way that liberates them from old ideas, old concepts, cultural constrictions, gives them a path…

00:16:46 Kevin

Can we pause? Rosemary?

00:16:47 Rosemary

Yeah.

00:16:48 Kevin

You’re talking about other people again.

00:16:50 Rosemary

Oh, sorry.

00:16:53 Kevin

I want to know how you’re feeling in this moment.

00:16:56 Rosemary

I will answer you because as you asked that question, I saw a beautiful raptor sailing through the air. I feel very free. I feel very light and very free with a strong wind beneath my wings.

00:17:11 Kevin

Yeah, I’m glad I asked because that’s exactly what I see. And I want to use this word. Yeah. In the context that I mean, it is very attractive. It’s very alluring. And maybe even the word to use would be. It’s very magnetic and it’s beautiful just to watch you lit up, free, excited, like a raptor. That’s exactly. That’s why I wanted to check with you, because I think, am I projecting this onto Rosemary. Is this me? Is this you? So I’m really glad you gave that answer because that’s exactly how you are being right now.

00:17:50 Rosemary

Thank you. Thank you for reflecting that, I’m feeling at one with nature. I’m looking at the sunshine on the leaves. I’m watching the birds fly, feeling the breeze. And it’s just… There’s a sense of being exactly what I’m meant to be. Just as the trees are being trees and the raptor is being a raptor and the breeze is being the breeze. I’m. Yeah, I’m in my destined state.

00:18:20 Kevin

So what I’d love to do, Rosemary, if it’s okay with you, I would love, I don’t want you to give too much away. You can’t give too much away about the Magnetic Presence Marketing program. So I don’t want all the nuts and bolts. I don’t want the finer details. But talk to me a little bit about how someone comes to you with their box of Lego, or in fact, they probably come without their box of Lego and you send them home to get their Lego. Talk to me a little bit about that process. You know, it’s a lengthy process. They are held and supported for a long time. Talk to me a little bit about that.

00:18:55 Rosemary

Yeah. The pilot is 16 weeks, and we spend the first six weeks just going through some foundational stuff, redefining what so many people have learned ‘should be,’ and I’m going to use this term because traditional marketing has taught them things should be a certain way. So the first six weeks are spent redefining those things through the Magnetic Presence Marketing lens. Then we spend 10 weeks jumping into the work, implementing. People begin drafting bios, they begin creating their target audience, their ideal client profile. All these things that we’ve been taught to avoid, distrust, but we get into them from the aspect of magnetism, and that shifts things. I am thinking after the pilot, that the first full sort of foundational program that’s rolled out should probably be double in length. What I’ve learned is that people need time to make that shift. And since the modules roll out weekly, what I’d like to do is add a second 16 weeks, which is like a second round through the program where people can really dig into, in community, creating what I call their marketing cache, which is like a little stash of bios of assorted lengths. It’s a credentialing statement that explains how you got to where you got to. The sort of statement that when people read it, makes people say, well, of course, with that background, how could they possibly be doing anything else? Their unique selling proposition, we have redefined as their unique sovereign presence. They get to drill that down. It’s a statement. It’s part of their marketing cache. Their value proposition is a statement. They come up with the various ways they benefit their clients. All of these things are created and documented and put into a digital cache, a Google Drive, whatever, so that as they move forward with their marketing, they’re compiling a resource which, while it will evolve as their work evolves, never needs to be recreated. It’s a resource that they can pull from for as long as they want to continue with their life’s work.

00:21:29  J’aime

Rosemary, can I interrupt you for just a moment?

00:21:32 Rosemary

Yes.

00:21:33 J’aime

I’m still swimming somewhere back there where you said that instead of a certain kind of selling, not the marketing selling, but the presence, what did you call it?

00:21:45 Rosemary
The normal. The traditional term. Like, it’s. I kept the initials the same. It’s a USP. Traditional marketing calls that your unique selling point or your unique selling proposition. And we’ve redefined it as your unique sovereign presence.

00:22:02 J’aime
Come on, let’s stay there for just a second. That is legendary on so many levels, because I’ve been waiting until we get to talk about the second part of the name of the presence. Stretch that out for us a little bit.

00:22:18 Rosemary

Well, your unique selling proposition is what makes you different, what makes you stand out in the crowd. And in Magnetic Presence Marketing, there’s no comparison. There’s no better, worse. So your unique sovereign presence is just… We talked about distilling Scotch and notes. Your unique sovereign presence is your unique recipe that resonates with certain people so well, just as the notes of a certain scotch resonate with certain people. And it’s not the only thing, but it’s an important aspect of how you present yourself.

00:23:00 J’aime

I mean, when you say, unique selling point, let’s do a little exercise if you’re listening and just see what that does to your body when you take a little sip of unique selling point. I feel it in my throat. Like it blocks my throat. I feel something cagey in my, like, belly seize up. Kevin, what do you… What goes on for you when I ask you about your unique selling point?

00:23:27 Kevin

It activates my gag reflex. I’m being serious. I’m like, oh, so that. That’s what it does for me. I suppose the word to describe that is. It disgusts me.

00:23:47 Rosemary

Yes.

00:23:48 J’aime

That word. I saw a lot.

00:23:50 Rosemary

Yes.

00:23:51 J’aime

In the people that come to you, before this, marketing disgusted me. So how on earth are you going to enter this world with your authentic self? That’s like you just open your Instagram feed and everyone’s unique selling point is crawling and stammering and climbing and stampeding over each other. And if you’re me, you close it at that point. Kevin’s giving a big, like, head shake. Yes!  I know you’re out there listening, doing the same thing. So like, let’s talk about now. Unique Sovereign.. Did you say unique sovereign presence?

00:24:30 Rosemary

Yep.

00:24:32 J’aime

If you’re listening right now and wishing that this platform could be available for you to share with the world the unexpected ways that the compassionate inquiry approach is helping you bring more connection, healing and authenticity into your clients lives, we’ve got a really exciting offer for you, so stay with us and then we’ll be right back with the rest of Rosemary’s show.

00:24:56 Kevin
Your journey with Compassionate Inquiry matters. Your work in the world matters. If you have a story to share about bringing Compassionate Inquiry into the world, we’d like to amplify your voice. Spotlight episodes are full length Gifts of Trauma podcast interviews offered exclusively to CI community members. You’ll not only share your story with 55,000 healing professionals across all platforms, you’ll receive a pre interview strategy session plus three promotional video clips. We’re offering only 10 Spotlight episodes per year and production realities require a financial contribution. Follow the links in the show notes to access full details and express your interest.

00:25:47 J’aime

Unique sovereign presence. How does that land in your body, Kevin?

00:25:54 Kevin

The first time you were saying it there, J’aime, just as you were saying it, I felt myself take a really nice long, slow in breathing and felt my torso filled with space and presence. I’m using the word we’re describing, but I felt my own unique sovereign presence. That’s what happened for me just there.

00:26:16 J’aime

Yeah, I felt my body taking up space, and my breath filling that space, and looking through my eyes, really showing up. So that to me is just so exciting. That’s something you’re offering people, that opportunity just by itself. I bet people are coming away from this podcast with something really, really useful just by being offered that.

00:26:49 Rosemary

It takes me back to the man this was modeled on. Gabor. He steps onto a stage, opens his mouth. You can feel his unique sovereign presence. It’s palpable.

00:27:04 Kevin

We’re maybe saying the same thing, Rosemary, because what I wanted to add to that, J’aime and I talked about taking a breath, taking up space, connecting. J’aime talked about connecting through our eyes to the world. But what I’m noticing a lack of when I feel my unique sovereign presence is puffed-upness, of ego. There’s a lack of that. It’s like I’m taking up the space that is rightfully mine. I’m not. I have no desire when I consider unique sovereign presence ,of taking up anyone else’s space. And it’s almost that when I feel into unique sovereign presence, like we were saying earlier, there’s that allowance of another person, they too have a right to feel into their unique sovereign presence. And the two things don’t… They’re not competing. Whereas when we talk about unique selling point, it is. It’s combative and competitive and one has to beat the other. One has to be brighter ,or get more attention, or there’s an ego. And I say that using ego in the worst term of the word. But there’s an egoness to unique selling point, versus a lack of ego with unique sovereign presence.

00:28:29 Rosemary

Thank you, Kevin. I’m glad you said that because I do want to just say another key hallmark of Magnetic Presence Marketing, again modeled from Compassionate Inquiry, is people who use this practice. There’s no agenda. We put ourselves out there and we trust our inner magnetism to attract whoever we’re meant to serve. There’s no manipulation and no agenda, which is also so refreshing.

00:29:00 Kevin

And then, Rosemary, maybe this wouldn’t be a Gifts of Trauma podcast if I didn’t get a little bit esoteric and spiritual. Something that you’re reminding me of right now is there’s the quote in the Bhagavad Gita and it’s chapter 12, verse 12. And I think I’ve used it on the show before. And it says, “Better than mechanical work is knowledge. Better than knowledge is meditation. Better than meditation is giving up all ownership of results, because therein lies eternal peace”. And that’s what I hear you say right now. So even noticing that through Compassionate Inquiry and into Magnetic Presence Marketing, we’re drawing in that as… We? I’ve already aligned myself, aligned myself to this Magnetic Presence Marketing. That’s how magnetic it is. I’ve just noticed. I said we. I’m so sorry. You. This is all yours, Rosemary. You are helping people without using quotes from the Bhagavad Gita to give up all ownership of results. We’re just… You are just putting yourself out there, or helping people to put themselves out there and trusting in this Magnetic Presence Marketing to draw people to you.

00:30:19 Rosemary

Absolutely. Yeah. Just like I trusted the right buyers for my renovated homes to show up.

00:30:25 J’aime

I keep coming back to what you said earlier, that it’s clean. It gives more dimension to that statement as we talk about defining this sort of presence, that’s not a puffed-upness. It doesn’t require stuff from outside. You know, it requires cleaning your inside  – that six weeks of detoxing, which I think is really beautiful that you make space for. I wonder if there are any other sort of Compassionate Inquiry, real key tools that you’re implementing that you want to talk about.

00:31:01 Rosemary

Perhaps this fits as an answer to your question. Part of the program is getting feedback from clients and presenting that in our marketing to help future clients self select in, and self select out. A key part of this work. And we just covered this in Module 10, which was talking about product descriptions, products, programs, services. Is, yes, it’s important to paint a picture of who is what we call a right fit client, who this is for ,and who it won’t serve. And again, modeling Gabor, this is not for everyone. And also staying away from the guru-supplicant. And keeping our positioning equal. I’m a few steps ahead of you on this path. I don’t know everything. I’m not the only answer. And just bringing humility into it and also bringing compassion in. If you sell someone a 10 week program and it turns out that they’re not a right fit client, someone who’s been through Magnetic Presence Marketing would not stick to rules and say, well, you bought it, now you’re stuck with it, if you don’t want to use it. You would work something out with that person. Because there’s a certain energy that comes when someone makes a mistake, ends up in the wrong place. And that really does call for empathy, understanding, creativity. Yeah, just exploration. It calls for exploration.

00:32:48 Kevin

Just writing a few of the.., you know. J’aime asked what other things you’re bringing in and just in the. No few sentences, Rosemary, you used the word humility, Compassion. No, guru. Kindness, honesty, empathy and exploration.

00:33:02 J’aime

I love that you just summarized that. I was also thinking about previously  – mirroring.

00:33:07 Rosemary

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think, J’aime, you said something at one point about having paid a lot of money for a marketing course that you ended up throwing in the trash. I actually had one person at the beginning who signed up. It’s a really small cohort, maximum 14 people. And something landed wrong for them in the first module. It was legitimate. I sent her a full refund.

00:33:35 J’aime

Well, let me just finish that story because I did great in that program. I was like leading everyone that I knew. I had all the clients I wanted. It was like making the best money I’ve ever made, but it wasn’t me. It didn’t feel good. It felt dirty. And I was like, I can’t keep doing this. It feels trashy. It’s going in the trash. I have to start a brand new way.

00:34:01 Rosemary

Thank you for expanding that. That adds so much to throwing it away. It worked. And I’ve heard people say that before. So many. I followed the rules, it worked. I made a lot of money and it felt awful.

00:34:15 J’aime

And it’s too expensive to abandon myself. It costs too much to not be me. It costs too much to be in this arena that’s so precious and tender and be bringing people in without that magnetic presence. It really resonates with me. And we could spend a little more time talking about the CI qualities because I think there are many. But I think also, I want to talk a little bit about fear that we’re walking through in this time. I have a 12 year old son. We just moved him to a new school, a new country. And all the time I’ve been saying, well, it’s funny we’re doing this because I have no idea what kind of future. I have no idea how to prepare this person for the world. And I know that’s where we stand as a humanity right now. We don’t know what’s coming. So there’s a fear shadow lurking. Not even lurking. It’s in the bright light. What’s going to happen with AI And I really feel like this thing that you’re guiding to is bringing people into it. It’s offering people a resting place.

00:35:20 Rosemary

Yeah. Solidity, a confidence, a surety that is not based on anything tangible or logical, but feels solid. I would like to just share a little bit about the vision that inspired this program. You may remember back in May, we broadcast an interview with Amy Elizabeth Fox. She was talking about how she and Thomas Hubl had piloted a program training non-clinicians in trauma therapy. There were nurses, there were teachers, there were coaches, there were all kinds of people. And they just completed a cohort of 200 people. As she described what these people had learned, in my mind I saw with other healing approaches, IFS, The Embody Lab, RLT. So many are accepting non clinicians. So what came to me is like, we’ve got this army of healers forming, which in our uncertain times, they will be needed. They are showing up, they are training. But what if once they’re trained and ready to serve, they can’t get past this marketing block? They can’t get past how dirty it feels to use these traditional approaches? And what if they don’t put themselves out there and they can’t be found by the people they’re trained to serve? And that was when it came to me. We’ve got to radically shift the way we market, because otherwise the messages won’t get through and all of that investment of time and energy and passion and heart won’t be used the way it was intended. There’s my utilitarian side. What a waste, after that huge investment. We need to have a path that helping professionals can use to feel as good about marketing themselves as they do about the work they do. And that’s where this all came from.

00:37:43 Kevin

It almost, Rosemary, sounds like to not share your unique sovereign presence or to not. Yeah, share, offer it, show it, reveal it. To not reveal your unique sovereign presence would actually be doing people a disservice.

00:38:01 Rosemary

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And I’ve challenged participants before, mostly in my pre CI days. But I would say by withholding these gifts, you have. You’re being selfish. There’s so many people who could benefit, and they’ve looked at me with big eyes, and I never thought about it that way. Oh, my goodness. And it’s a real paradigm shift for them.

00:38:31 Kevin

I would agree. What I was going to say, Rosemary, was just that I had a thought. It wasn’t a question. It was more an offering. And I would love to. I sit with a little meditation group every morning, and quite often I design or create meditations from a song that I’ve listened to that day or a quote from a book or a phrase that someone has said and used when I was chatting to them in the street. And I would definitely love to just use that word, unique sovereign presence in a meditation. And when I do that, if it’s okay with you, I would love to send you that and whatever. But it’s such a beautiful. Even outside of marketing, it’s such a beautiful phrase for us all to lean into our unique sovereign presence, that isn’t greedy, isn’t forceful, isn’t violent, isn’t aggressive, but yet takes up everything that it’s entitled to whilst honoring the space that everyone else is entitled to.

00:39:38 Rosemary

Absolutely. I would be honored if you would do that. And it takes us back. It takes me back to our interview with Allison Creech. She modeled it beautifully.

00:39:48 Kevin

Yeah, she did. So, Rosemary, I’m very conscious of our time, and I really am delighted that it’s you here, because I get to ask my question, and I’m going to have to think of a new question because this was always a surprise question for people. But you’ve heard this so many times now, it won’t be a surprise. So then let me ask you, Rosemary, if in the time that we’re in and in the skin that you’re in, the body that you’re in right now, if you had the ear of humanity and you could whisper something into the ear of humanity, what would that be?

00:40:30 Rosemary

It would be. There’s no feeling more potent and exciting and fulfilling, than embracing your authenticity.

00:40:48 Kevin

Beautiful. Thank you, J’aime and Rosemary, I just want to say I have had… Let me use a word from the north of Ireland. I have had mighty crack having this conversation with the three of us. And I hope that the people that have listened will have had as much crack listening to it, as I have been part of it. And maybe if they have, they would be very kind in liking and subscribing to the podcast, as subscribing is very important to us all in helping us get our unique sovereign presence out to the world. And I just want to say, J’aime, thank you. And Rosemary, you have been an absolute delight of a guest on the Gifts of Trauma podcast. So thank you so much for giving us your time. I really appreciate it.

00:41:42 Rosemary

Thank you so much. It’s been such a pleasure to be on the other side of the mic. Thank you so much. Kevin and J’aime. 

The Gifts of Trauma is a weekly podcast that features personal stories of trauma, healing, transformation, and the gifts revealed on the path to authenticity. 

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Please note this podcast is for informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for personal therapy or a DIY formula for self therapy.